AGP & Masochism

This post was inspired by a post in this forum from two weeks ago that made, what I thought to be, a very compelling argument:

The discrimination against AGP works primarily because people have been led to believe that an "identity" is morally superior to a "fetish".

I wouldn't think that it is even up for debate that the trans community believes that an identity is superior to a fetish.

This attitude has also been permeating this community moreso recently than it has in the past. This isn't necessarily a bad thing at all. I believe that the OP of that post two weeks ago is, like myself, of the opinion that - when it comes to AGP - a fetish is superior to an identity. Obviously, this is the minority viewpoint of this community.

I believe that AGP and masochism are inextricably linked to each other. With a few notable exceptions, I believe that the majority of this community is made up of masochists. There are two types of masochists: sexual masochists and social masochists. The sexual masochists prefer to indulge in AGP as a fetish, while the social masochists prefer to indulge in AGP as an identity. It doesn't need to be repeated but I am going to say it once again anyhow: the trans community promotes social masochism and rejects sexual masochism.The big question that I have is: why?

Another interesting aspect of masochism is that a sexual masochist finds social masochism to be quite unappealing, while the social masochist finds sexual masochism to be quite repugnant. Basically, you are either one of the other and you will never, at any point in your lifetime, be both a sexual and a social masochist.

What follows are some excerpts I pulled from the world wide web concerning masochism:

What is Masochism?

Masochism is an attempt to elude anxiety and to gain self-esteem through a "flight forward" to meet pain and punishment necessary to the ultimate attainment of pleasure. Pain itself is not sought; it is merely an obstacle to prospective pleasure. Phantasy is the source of masochism; it is supported by suspense which postpones or destroys the end pleasure as the masochist becomes more ascetic. A third feature is the demonstrative component or provocative exhibitionism. The intermediate and end phases of masochism are sadistic in nature with aggression turned towards the ego and the execution of punishment ceded to another person. Social and sexual masochism are different expressions of the aggressive and erotic urges of sadism; they have become masochistic through direction of the ego toward a passive subject. Sexual masochism brings about sex gratification through pain and punishment; social masochism rehabilitates the ego by resolving social anxiety through punishment. The essence and aim of masochism is "victory through defeat." (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)

The late Theodore Millon was an American psychologist who developed four subtypes of social masochism. Does anyone relate to any of these?

Virtuous masochist (Including histrionic features) Proudly unselfish, self-denying, and self-sacrificial; self-ascetic; weighty burdens are judged noble, righteous, and saintly; others must recognize loyalty and faithfulness; gratitude and appreciation expected for altruism and forbearance.

Possessive masochist (Including negativistic features) Bewitches and ensnares by becoming jealous, overprotective, and indispensable; entraps, takes control, conquers, enslaves, and dominates others by being sacrificial to a fault; control by obligatory dependence.

Self-undoing masochist (Including avoidant features) Is "wrecked by success"; experiences "victory through defeat"; gratified by personal misfortunes, failures, humiliations, and ordeals; eschews best interests; chooses to be victimized, ruined, disgraced.

Oppressed masochist: (Including depressive features). Experiences genuine misery, despair, hardship, anguish, torment, illness; grievances used to create guilt in others; resentments vented by exempting from responsibilities and burdening "oppressors".

The following is a summary (which I did not write) of the book "Masochism in Modern Man" by Theodor Reik. I find this to be a good description of my experience of sexual masochism:

Theodor Reik, a psychologist, says that masochism is not what it appears to be. To Freud, the masochist is a weak, submissive person, who finds pleasure in pain and humiliation, either to repress guilt feelings or other socially unacceptable desires. He exists because the human being has two fundamental drives: Eros (life) and Thanatos (destruction). In their behavior, the sadomasochist represents Thanatos, the death drive.

But Reik argues that this idea is wrong, and contradicts what his clinical experience and his personal analysis tells him. He contends that the psychoanalysts, because of a combination of lack of independent thinking and a lack of patience, jumped to the simplest, but least accurate conclusion.

To him, the masochist does not, in fact, find pleasure in humiliation. The masochist, like the rest of us, finds pain to be undesirable, but the difference is that he has redirected his aggressive instincts towards his own ego, because he believes that pain must be a prerequisite to pleasure – that he can only deserve pleasure after going through pain.

In this way, the masochist is a powerful character, who shows a resilient, even mocking attitude to pain. Unlike the passive weak person, who avoids the unpleasantness of pain, the masochist seeks pain intentionally and demands it, as if to show that despite the highest forms of discomfort, they will prevail and get their reward (pleasure).

To understand why the masochist inflicts pain on themselves, remember that the other side of masochism is sadism. That is, the other side of the same coin – the masochist is a sadist inverted.

At some point in the past, the sadomasochist experienced a painful emotional event, that severely wounded his pride. This caused him to redirect his sadistic impulses – his aggressive, asocial, destructive desires – towards his own ego.

There are two kinds of masochism. The first is sexual masochism and the second is social masochism.

In sexual masochism, the masochist reenacts the event(s) that led to his wounded pride with a partner, and in this way, he is able to confront his fear and anxiety in controlled doses, and he gets his pleasure, he is able to triumph in spite of the anxiety. In social masochism, the end goal is less precise than sexual masochism – it is a formless masochism.

That is, instead of concentrating pain in a ritualistic sexual encounter, the masochistic tendency sabotages the entire life of the person, dooming him to perpetual failure. The social masochist, instead of being repulsed in this defeat, takes a defiant attitude, he says to himself, that “one day, they will appreciate me” or that “despite the pain I am suffering now, I will be rewarded with exactly what I want” or “I will get my revenge against this person who wronged me.”

Reik points out there is a peculiar pattern that he found in his patients, which led him to conclude that the masochist exhibits either sexual masochism or social masochism but never both.

For example, a masochist who enjoys degradation and humiliation sexually, is very aggressive and successful in his profession and social life. Whereas a masochist who enjoys a more traditional sexual life, suffers socially and professionally.

As a sexual masochist, I find it incredibly hot to incorporate AGP into my romantic sex life and I think it works quite well in my relationship. I am quite lucky, however, to be with a woman that prefers to dominate me and has said to me that "she never wants to be submissive again". I am also not like the majority of AGPs, and really, I am what you would call a sissy (but all the sissies seem to be like the majority of AGPs now too, so I am a minority either way). My AGP is entirely the product of childhood trauma. That's why I relate so much to Theodore Reik's interpretation of sexual masochism, as it is very ritualistic and it is a way for me to relive the traumatic experience in a way in which I am in control of the situation (while I pretend not to be, of course).

I just don't understand how it is better to incorporate AGP into my everyday life, outside of my sexuality, while minimizing the fetishistic part of AGP, which provides intense euphoria and is otherwise completely separated from my life. I consider this incorporating my AGP into my life as a man in the most comfortable and desirable way.

I have the following questions:

1). Why do you think it is preferable to nix the libido and live as a trans woman, when being a hypersexual AGP is something confined to your private life only?

2). Do you disagree with the whole idea of AGP being tied with social or sexual masochism?

3). [REDACTED]

4). Why is there a need to live as a woman and why is it so hard to live as a man with AGP?

Thank you for your time. This is a long post, so I assume right off the bat it will be ignored by the majority.

**Source:**

Most people think that an "identity" is superior to a "fetish")

Overview of Masochism

Millon's Subtypes

Masochism in Modern Man Summary)